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  • Hi,

    In your recent edit to the page Eat fine bread! you've asked about the proper templates for rare vs. alt success.

    In short: For rare success use {{Rare Success}}, for an alt success simply use {{Success}}.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hi,

    I saw that you're adding this card to the wiki. Since it's all Fate locked we need to remove it.

    It's not a publicly-visible card with just the results locked. The card itself can only be seen by paying Fate and as such shouldn't be on the wiki (like e.g. A Dream of Blood, and other Fate dependent cards).

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  • Have you tried seeking Mr. Eaten's name while in possession of the cider? Would its immortality effects shield you from the permakill option?

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • At least for lose x of item where there is no relevant unlock. You're not too interested in those in either case, unless it's an item/quality you can't sell on the Bazaar. The other use may be for editors, but 'what links here' is generally superior.

    That being said, I think item gains should be considered on their own. It's much more interesting to link a storylet which gives you 10 proscribed material than one that randomly takes away those 10 material for no apparent reason. Not necessarily saying those are always needed, but at least they're generally more useful.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • http://community.failbettergames.com/topic5794-community-consultation-problematic-cards.aspx

    You KNOW what to do! Everyone call to arms, time to report every annoying card you see!

    Bringing Revolution / Cheesemonger no more / Artist & Artist's Model / and so on and so on!!!

    PS: Would you mention thistopic, will you? I'll be very grateful if you do.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • I see you've added this image and others like it. Where in the game did you see it?

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    • Um, it was just clelbration of F.F.Mug merch. not in-game stuff. Sorry...

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    • This wiki is viewed in different parts of the world, where laws regarding illegal substances as well as their "advertisement" or anything that might be considered as such vary greatly. In some cases the punishments can be draconian.

      Putting this here, on this wiki, particularly now when FBG is paying much more attention to what is happening here, is mindbogglingly foolish.

      I've deleted the images. In the future be more mindful.

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    • Vae Victis wrote:
      This wiki is viewed in different parts of the world, where laws regarding illegal substances as well as their "advertisement" or anything that might be considered as such vary greatly. In some cases the punishments can be draconian.

      Putting this here, on this wiki, particularly now when FBG is paying much more attention to what is happening here, is mindbogglingly foolish.

      I've deleted the images. In the future be more mindful.

      Understood. I thought that Victorian relics would be excempt from such... but you're right, that was foolish.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • 55 cp is level 10. Assuming you have exactly that, you'll have your quality reduced to 1, rather than completely obliterated. Item conversions use the same drain: Level 6 -20 cp to level 1 and level 3 -5 Cp to level 1

    Btw, thanks for adding those images. In the future, if you could add FL images to the "this is copyrighted, but use is permitted..." licencing option, that'd be cool of you. That categorises it under 'Game Files'. We use the 'Wiki Files' category for images made for the wiki.

    Don't worry if you forget, though - we can easily add it afterwards =)

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    • Gillsing, Aximillio is talking to you in the first paragraph. XD

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    • Um, what are you talking about? Is this about Irrigo drop thing? Or something else?

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    • Oh dear, I've put that first paragraph on the wrong wall. I guess that's what happens when you try to think several thoughts at once, my apoligies.

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    • I just stumbled upon this while scanning the "recent activity" list for no particular reason. And while I did consider that 10->1 thing, it didn't occur to me that the option itself unlocked at 10. I see now how it's meant to take away as much as possible for the lowest level possible, while still keeping the card unlocked, just as you said.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Thanks for your contributions to the Raising Connections guide.  I wasn't aware that the cp changes for visiting acquaintances had been increased, and adding options for those without connection pets is an excellent idea.  Perhaps those should go in their own subsection, under General Methods.  What do you think?

    I'm going to revert a few of your changes, though, and I thought it would be best to explain why here.

    First, the guide is only for repeatable options -- so selling the location of the Nadir, for example, is excluded.

    Second, the wiki doesn't cover Fate-locked content, and I think your references to the Soul Trade are probably too explicit.

    Third, I don't think we should cover options which are strictly worse than an alternative -- the connected pet option for Bohemians, for example, gives fewer cp than composing poetry, and also costs Whispered Secrets.  I don't think gambling Masters connections at the Carnival should be covered, for more or less the same reason: it's worse than the alternative of doing nothing, since it reduces your Connected on average.

    Fourth, in the interests of clarity, usability and brevity, it seems to me better to exclude Carnival options from the Specific Connections section, since they're already covered in the General Methods section.  If you'd like to investigate the exact number of cp these options give, though, and add the values to the General Methods section, that would be extremely helpful; unfortunately my Connected values are too high to test them, and I don't want to get rid of them just for that purpose.

    If you disagree with my views on these matters, please let me know either here or on my Wall -- I imagine the best way to proceed would be to solicit the views of the wider wiki community, especially the more experienced editors.

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    • View all 7 replies
    • Sorry, my bad.  I should have made the changes I described in a timely fashion, rather than wondering off for a few days.

      I don't have strong feelings about 'cp'/'CP'; if 'CP' is more usual in other guides, please feel free to standardise.

      In general, my inclinations and commitments probably make me better suited to occasional bursts of activity, rather than long-term curating.

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    • Haha, I think you've described every contributor. :) We're all volunteers here. FL is awesome so we try to make the surrounding community awesome, as well. Just guard your backs and the backs of your fellow editors if possible. ...That makes it sound as if we're targeted for stabbings or something...which is not the case! But, yeah, watch after each other's work. Even I fuck up, so if it happens, please point it out or correct my mistakes. That's it. Don't lose sleep over it!

      I'm cool with either "cp" or "CP". Subjectively, I don't mind; the guide works great for me with either or both ways. Objectively, choose one standard for the guide so as not to risk confusing the readers, and for the aesthetics of reading comprehension.

      I will not punish you if you decide to go with "cp"! I'm not anyone's boss here, just that irritating colleague who gives constructive criticism at every turn who is probably in danger of not receiving a X-mas card this year. :P

      Eventually, the Guides category page will be moved to the top green navigation bar as a spotlighted link. I like detailed and involved guides (they're usually long), and I don't care if various spoilers are included; my personal preferences don't align well with the wiki, though. The wiki gets a constant stream of players new to FL. They're very likely to read the Guides. Plus, many (at least 25%, possibly verging on 50%) of the readers browse the wiki with small screens like cellphones or tablets. Keep those people in mind when you write/edit your guides. :)

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Something like http://echobazaar.wikidot.com/end-game-grinding. I updated it a little, but it's still stale for the most part. Not sure when, though. Due to some stuff and stuff, I have stuff to do.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Several storylets offers items in "symbolic" amount - For example, see "Take the Gracious Widow up on her offer" or "Look into the Provost's activities" - It would make sense if they are rare item, but I think that including such triffles only complicate whole issue for people who actually want to know about Item's Sources or Use.

    ...Maybe I'm unsealing can of worms, but I really want to talk about it.

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    • Category "Item Sources" can be quite the double-edged blade. For readers, it complicates matters when they want to track down the optimal grind options. For editors, it's a necessary index at times when they must locate pages for mass revision. One occasionally undermines the other; I know this from much unwanted personal experience.

      Putting tables or lists with the highest #'ed options on the Sources pages of commonly used items has been suggested before. I've spoken with Jemann and Aximillio about it, and we all green-lit it. Other projects took up our immediate attention, so that idea got sidelined, but it's still on our mental To Do lists. As alternative medicine, Urthdigger and Flyte have both volunteered to write guides for item gathering. :)

      Besides, at what point should you deem the amount insignificant -- or as you say, "symbolic" -- enough not to use the category? There are many items, particularly the upper tier conversion items, that are considered plentiful at 1-10. You would risk someone not marking an action page with "[Item] Sources" if the reward number for Dreadful Surmises was 3?! :P

      EDIT: I hold the same thoughts (except guides) for category "Item Uses", as well.

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    • ZDee wrote:
      Category "Item Sources" can be quite the double-edged blade. For readers, it complicates matters when they want to track down the optimal grind options. For editors, it's a necessary index at times when they must locate pages for mass revision. One occasionally undermines the other; I know this from much unwanted personal experience.

      Putting tables or lists with the highest #'ed options on the Sources pages of commonly used items has been suggested before. I've spoken with Jemann and Aximillio about it, and we all green-lit it. Other projects took up our immediate attention, so that idea got sidelined, but it's still on our mental To Do lists. As alternative medicine, Urthdigger and Flyte have both volunteered to write guides for item gathering. :)

      Besides, at what point should you deem the amount insignificant -- or as you say, "symbolic" -- enough not to use the category? There are many items, particularly the upper tier conversion items, that are considered plentiful at 1-10. You would risk someone not marking an action page with "[Item] Sources" if the reward number for Dreadful Surmises was 3?! :P

      EDIT: I hold the same thoughts (except guides) for category "Item Uses", as well.

      It's 2:12 AM here, so I'll only answer to last quuestion for now: I already said "It would make sense if they are rare item" up there, on line 2. Of course I thought about it.

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    • That's what I'm trying to say. The term "rare", how should the readers and editors interpret it? We both have characters of PoSI status, so our notions of "rare" probably match; I would enjoy reading Item Sources/Uses pages cleared of trash options. But there are many users of the wiki who are low or mid level. My "trash" could be their "treasure". If I make a new character or restart a current one, I would need to dig up trash, anyway. :P

      Rough outline of the tables I mentioned:
      | Reward | Title | Level | Notes |
      | 2000 | Big Booty | 90 | R |
      | 1500 | Ten Trunks | 100 |POSI OT|
      | 1000 | Hidey Hole | 85 | F |

      (Notes will also have important unlock requirements like high connection levels, specific story qualities, and so on. And, yes, they'll hold more than 3 rows...)

      F = failure
      R = rare success
      OT = playable only one time
      POSI = Person of Some Importance requirement

      Commonly sought items with a plethora of linked pages will get tables. (Later on, shorter pages will simply get bullet lists.) Both Reward and Level columns will be sortable by ascending and descending values. Title column will be sortable alphabetically by A-Z and Z-A. Vae Victis experimented successfully with sortable columns here:
      http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/User:Vae_Victis/Sortable_Bundle_of_Oddoties

      Sortability is for the sake of helping players at any level speedily locate what they seek.

      When the idea was first brought up months ago, Varissaelle was the only editor who could make custom tables. Now we have several editors who are familiar with coding them. :D

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    • A FANDOM user
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